Gay Men Confronting Our Sexism

Brian Kane: The thread about […] unintentional sexism is touching a lot of nerves. But it should. We gay men can’t go on assuming that our own minority status in society has made us immune to sexism, as much as we’d like to believe that. Ayana has made the crux of the argument clear: good intentions are not good enough. Gay men must defer to women’s opinions on this matter: women are the victims of sexism.

Tim Evanson: I will not for one minute agree that just because a member of a discriminated against group says he or she is discriminated against that therefore he or she is.

Tim Wilson: Try understanding this: The obligation of a person who is not, at the moment, in general, subject to racism, sexism, or heterosexism is tolisten to a person who is, at the moment, in general, subject to racism, sexism, or heterosexism. When a black person talks to you about racism or the possibility thereof, a white person in the USA in the last decade of the twentieth century ought to shut up and listen. When a woman talks to you about sexism or the possibility thereof, a male person in the USA in the last decade of the twentieth century ought to shut up and listen. When a homosexual person talks to you about heterosexism or the possibility thereof, a heterosexual person in the USA in the last decade of the twentieth century ought to shut up and listen.

It doesn’t mean saying “of course everything you say is true”; it means understanding the numbers make it more likely that its true than any comparable statement about oppression by a white or male or straight person, and it means understanding that not listening to the person’s complaint is another act by which that person is subject to racism or sexism or heterosexism.

The other major point is : How in hell do you expect to learn what is perceived as sexist/racist/whatever unless people tell you? If a black friend tells me that something I’ve said or done comes across as racist, that doesn’t say anything about my intentions. If I’m not willing to examine my behavior, and modify it if necessary, that says a lot about my intentions. It doesn’t mean that everything my friend says about racism is gospel, but she’s certainly in a hell of a lot better position than I am, to know how my words and actions might come across to a stranger. I’ve never lived in this world as a black woman, and I don’t have any other way to find out about it than to listen. And if I don’t want to come across as racist, and that’s important to me, I will make the effort to listen, and if I feel the need, I will ask other black people, friends and not, for their opinion.

Tim Evanson: For us to simply assume that women are pristine and logical and have no political agenda and that when some woman asserts discrimination she’s being Mother Teresa is simply untrue. My female friends would be the first to start taking advantage of me if I gave them such leeway! Women have human natures, too, and that nature includes power-hunger, lying, and deceit — just like it is in men.

I might question your notion of friendship, but hey! It’s your life. If you think your friends would lie to you about what behavior is likely to be seen as sexist, then ask some strangers. The original point was, I think, that there was a different reaction from the guys than from the women, and the response from the guys came across as sexist, no matter what their intent was. Nobody claimed that women don’t have a political agenda — we do. We want to be treated like equals. That doesn’t seem like it would be so very hard to understand. Not madonnas, and not whores, and not helpless little ladies. But in general, women are your best resource when it comes to learning about what looks like sexist behavior, and how to avoid it. If you aren’t going to listen to women on that issue, I would question whether you listen to women at all.

 

Amelia’s Western Vacation

HELLO FOLKS!!

I have finally returned from the western edge of Amurrika. Herewith be my travelogue… (or something like that).

As some of you may be aware, I was to journey to the land of California (it’s a whole ‘nother world over there) for the purpose of attending a retirement party for mine Uncle (my mother’s brother). So, mom paid for my train ticket, expecting that no one else from the family would be able to attend. HA! I ended up travelling with my [native New Yorker] cousin from Philadelphia to Chicago, and with my mother and my cousin from Chicago to Pasadena. (Mom actually detrained in LA, as she was supposed to be a surprise for Uncle George.) I get along well (Thank Deity!) with my cousin, she knows all about me, is one of the few family members who has met my lover, and has actually been willing to share a bed with me for sleeping (my roaming hands and my snoring notwithstanding).

As y’all may have gathered, I managed to avoid all of the derailments that occured during my (too short) vacation. We were actually sitting in Union Station in Chicago, waiting to go west, when the Zephyr derailed. The train trip west was reasonably uneventful, except that Nina (cousin) somehow managed to attract all of the apparent single, weird, men on the train. At least, they’re the ones who tried to talk to her. (I must admit (ok, boast), Nina is very attractive by almost any standard one chooses. And she’s personable to boot.) I teased her about the men. I decided to read a tome called Sex Work: Writings by women in the sex industry. That was fun. There were actually a few women bold enough to ask if they could look through the book. As I handed the book over to them, I would comment that it wasn’t nearly as titillating as its title would indicate, that it was more a scholarly work than strictly entertainment. Some of those ladies actually sat ’round to chat, even after a couple of them figured out what kind of prevert I actually am. Gives me more faith in the Milk of Human Kindness.

I must tell you — if you want to comfortably experience the beauty of this land (The US of A) take the train long distance. I was once again overwhelmed, silenced even, by the beauty of the terrain we passed through. The Southwest Chief (train #3 or #4 depending on direction) and The California Zephyr (#6) let you see the desert in Texas and Nevada and New Mexico, and Utah and Colorado (and the Rockies) and the flatlands in Nebraska and Iowa. If only you could hear the exclamations running through my brain! We really are blessed to live in this beautiful a country and we really should do all that we can to be sure it remains this beautiful. Ok, enough soapbox for now.

On to Beautiful Downtown Pasadena … Uncle George met me and Nina at the station and checked us into the local Holiday Inn. I promptly went to sleep after we ate breakfast. (You didn’t think I’d slept on the train, did you? Between the beauty outside the windows and the beauty of various sorts in the lounge, I couldn’t sleep.) Somehow a day passed, and it was time to make sure we were ready for the retirement party. I had planned to attempt full-shock-affect, so I made sure my hair was pretty short, and I wore a burgundy dinner jacket, wing-collar tuxedo shirt, tuxedo pants, and a leather bolo tie (string tie). We spotted the limo from the window in our room, so we dashed downstairs so Uncle George wouldn’t have to wait. As we exited from the hotel, I saw something that made my eyes sparkle, I’m sure. Standing next to the limo was the most gorgeous butch woman (dressed in a three piece suit, natch), who smiled quite broadly when she caught sight of me. It’s amazing what recognition will do for one’s spirits. B-) She carefully escorted me into the limo, so of course I sat on the seat right behind her. Her name’s Renee, by the way. (I believe the company is H&H, or something like that.)

Well, we finally arrived at Descanso Gardens, to discover that we’d have to leave and come back again; they planned to videotape the whole thing! So, floating somewhere ’round Pasadena and parts of Virginia and Illinois, there is a record of Amelia in formalwear, being handed out of a limo by a(nother) lovely butch dyke. Anywhooey, Mom succeeded in surprising Uncle George, and they pinned lavendar orchids on female family members’ left ti, er, breas, um, chests — yes, that’s the word, chests. Males got a white carnation pinned onto their left chest. The party was actually quite pleasant for me. Several shots of Jim Beam helped considerably. Also fun was having several of the ubiquitous blue-haired lady type walk up to me and ask “Oh, are you George’s nephew?”. To which (each time) I calmly replied, “No, I’m George’s niece.” It’s amazing how quickly embarrasment will stop a potentially boring conversation. Well, the party ended, and we were driven home by another gay limo driver, Bob. (I know; I asked him as I handed over a tip. He says there’re several GorL drivers for this company.)

The next morning, I was rustled out of bed (by my mom) at 5:45 am! Uncle George wanted to beat LA’s rush hour slowness, so he picked me up to go to the train station at 7:00 am. I was in the train station, waiting for a 9:55 train, by 7:30am. The Coast Starlight (train #14, I think) follows the California coast from LA up into the Pacific Northwest. I detrained in Oakland. <DEITY!> My eyes were tired after looking out the window at all that beautiful coastline. And, just in case I got tired of watching the view outside, there were 6 (apparent) heterosexual couples on holiday together, most of whom hadn’t ridden a train in their recent memory, if ever. They were very entertaining, and loud. As the train pulled out of the station, they commenced passing around (amongst themselves) canapes and wine and bloody marys. By noon, most of them were either asleep, or drunk, or asleep and drunk. But they were still entertaining when they were awake.

Oakland — I’m glad I wasn’t alone there at night, judging by what I saw from the car as we whizzed through it on the way to El Cerrito. Saturday morning (well, late Saturday morning, I’m not normally a morning person) we got up and started that tourist thing. Vina had to drop off some stuff in Marin, so I got a scenic tour of Marin. Then to the Golden Gate Bridge, and Golden Gate Park. I got some pictures there. Damn it’s windy and cold there! Didn’t see any bison. Then off to The Haight. Looks almost the same as it did 20 years ago on television! Sat in a cafe and watched the (weird) world go by while sipping espresso. I felt like I was in a time warp!

And then, and then, off to Good Vibrations! That’s one of the smallest “museum”s I’ve seen in a long while. The rest of the store; let me just say that it, too, was most entertaining. Some poor soul was actually strongly encouraged by the staff to use the tryout room. I don’t think her complexion could have stood any more color changes than it went through. I guess she should have been glad for the increased blood flow she got, keeps the skin healthy, doncha know.

From there we visited Women’s Craft West (?), and the women’s bookstore right next door to it. Ah! Bookstores. It’s a good thing I didn’t have very much money with me. I lust after books. [You thought it was something else, didn’t you?] Saw Dorothy Allison there. She is an attractive woman, with a very pleasant voice, and a great smile. Not to mention that she’s a good writer.

To the Castro! Wow! Say what you want about ghettos, but it was quite pleasant to feel really comfortable walking around there. Stopped and got coffee in a little coffee shop, and then wandered into A Different Light. (Another Bookstore! I was in an orgiastic frenzy! All those places to buy books, in one day!)

Sappho.dinner was a most pleasant experience, too. We dined at Ryan’s; I don’t remember the address, but it’s not more than a couple, three, blocks from A Different Light. Very nice place, very gay/lesbian-friendly. (No big surprise there, right? After all, it’s located in the Castro.) Hello to Tess and Michele and Julie and Sherrie, and Vina and Sora (even though they don’t have email access). We almost picked up two more women to add to our lovely band of lezzies. But they weren’t there to dine with us. They had everyone fooled for quite some time, though. (We sat in a small bar area while waiting for everyone to arrive and for our table to be prepared.)

Once we’d determined who the real members of the sappho.dinner.party were, we were seated. Our waiter was a CYT (Cute Young Thing) who wore very nice pants and suspenders (or were they braces?). We complimented him on them. Just for this special occasion, I wore my Dyke College sweatshirt. (It really is a school in Cleveland. A good buddy of mine, who lives in Cleveland, gave me the sweatshirt.) Dinner was superb, at least mine was. How about others’? — ladies? My dinner companions all seem to be exceptional women. ‘Twas a pleasure to share your company. I hope to do that again, soon. (Maybe we’ll run into those other two women again, eh?)

Vina and I went off to Amelia’s, in front of which I had my picture taken. Nice, dark place on the first floor. Had to rush off to a private party. Had fun there, too, but I’m not going to provide details… B-)

Sunday we went to Mr. S. I’m now the proud owner of a leather hat. I’d always wanted one, so now I’m a little happier. All I need now is a leather jacket and the motorcycle (and the driver’s license) to go with it. So, questing for coffee, we went to The Eagle! (Did I mention Chuck and Rich? [Hi guys!] They were our “tour guides” for this part of the adventure.) We finally gave up on finding hot coffee at The Eagle, and ventured over to (I think) Hamburger Mary’s. (Am I right, Rich?) Interesting little joint, whatever it was. It was a definite change of pace to be in the company of good looking men dressed in wonderful-smelling leather. (Can you say Bear, Furr? Yes, they have lots of hair, too.) After consuming LARGE mugs of decent coffee, it was time to go to MOTSS.DINNER.WITH.AMELIA.

Before I say anything else, I want to thank Joe Stong for organising this event. THANK YOU, JOE (Woof, moo!) And I want to thank all those motssters who attended: Joe, Vina, Rich (and Chuck), Melinda, Paul, Chris, Henry, Jack, Rob, Debbie, Mike, David, Harry (and Daffodil), Chris, and Andy. Whew! As you can calculate, we were a merry band of 19 assorted happy people. We were seated together at a long table in the center of the restaurant (Ristorante Venezia). Dinner was, again, superb. (Joe, thanks for recommending this place.) I had such a good time, I didn’t even think about smoking a cigarette until we’d left the restaurant. (It is a “no smoking” restaurant.) Henry was the only motsster who was immediately identifiable as a motsster, thanks to the soc.motss sweatshirt he wore. We had to guess about the rest of us. I’ll only make a few more comments about dinner — remember folks, I have pictures! (Speaking of which, if the group shot develops nicely, is it ok if I send a print along to Steve Dyer for the mythical motss.pix archives? If anyone has objections, please email me. Otherwise I’ll assume I have your consent.) I wish I’d had more time to talk with everyone! Mike, you have wonderful nipples! (Are you blushing yet?) My hands hadn’t had that much fun in public in days. Hmmm — let’s see, y’all are all great huggers. I like that quality in a person (or a people). Is it true that GorL folks make better huggers? Or is it just my (possibly) cuddly nature? (How do you hug a 230lb black she-bear? Anyway she wants!)

Monday morning; Time to make sure everything that should be packed is packed. That done, off to breakfast at FatApples, leave FatApples, get halfway to train station, remember I’ve LEFT MY JACKET IN THE RESTAURANT! Screeeeeeech, vroooom, back to restaurant, rescue lonely-looking jacket from back of chair, screech-vroom back to train station. We pulled into the station just after the train did. Sad goodbyes…I wasn’t ready to leave California yet.

The 4-day train ride from Oakland to Philadelphia was as breath-taking as I expected it to be, particularly while we were in the mountains in Colorado. Denver by night was pretty, too. Especially since we’d had no lights (or functional bathrooms) in the cars on the train for the previous two and-a-half hours. [“What?? No bathrooms? How the heck am I supposed to drink beer if there’re no functional bathrooms??? What else am I supposed to do in the dark with a carful of strangers?” 😉 😉 We told sick jokes, instead.]

Well, I think my hindquarters have finally recovered from being sat on for 4 days, 24 hours a day, in freezing climates, but my respiratory system is still putting up a fuss. Yes folks, I got sick after I got back from vacation. Methinks (and Schweetie does, too) that I had some sort of sinus infection. But it’s mostly gone now … either that, or it’s migrating down to my chest.

This has gone on long enough now, so I’ll end it.

Warm hugs, everyone,

Amelia

Forman Brown

Arne Adolfsen writes: I’d much rather talk about Lon Chaney, Jr. and Elsa Lanchester and Maria Ouspenskaya any day than boring old Freud.

If we talk about Elsa Lanchester, can we also talk about Forman Brown? Please?

For ten years — 1941 to 1951 — Elsa Lanchester performed a sort of music hall/cabaret act as part of the show at the Turnabout Theater in Hollywood. The shows there were half marionnette (the Yale Puppeteers) / half cabaret. Harry Burnett made the puppets, Roddy Brandon ran the business, and Forman Brown wrote the songs. The relationship among the three was more than a business partnership.

In 1933, Forman Brown, under the name Richard Meeker, wrote “Better Angel”, which is considered by some to be the first novel published in America to show homosexuality in a positive light. It was autobiographical, and described the beginnings of Forman’s relationship with Roddy — which became a lifetime partnership — and with Harry, with whom Forman and Roddy lived and worked for the rest of their lives (from what I’ve read and seen it’s not clear to me just how Harry fit in to the relationship, not that it matters how clear it is to me.)

The songs that Forman wrote for Elsa Lanchester are delightful, clever things. I once used this line from one in a sig file:

Since Mr. Badger-Butts gave me his hyphen
I’ve never, never, never been the same.
For I’ve found that when a lady has a hyphen
it changes more than just her name.

One delightful song he wrote and she sang concerns the newfangled electric vacuum cleaners. It’s called “It You Can’t Get in the Corners” and includes this immortal line:

Why fool around with electric cords or a bloomin’ billowin’ bag
When all you need is a bit of spit, your finger, and a rag?

That couplet speaks to me across the decades!

Mostly what I love about Forman Brown is his ability to convey so much in such simple, straightforward words. This from “I Shouldn’t Have Gone to that Matinee”:

I’d a seat in the box at the Empire
with a vacant one at my side.
They’d starated “East Lynne” when a fellow came in
and whispered, “Please, Miss, is this chair occupied?”
Well, I couldn’t say “yes” with conviction
so I said what he took to be “No.”
He shoved me in so tight that try as I might
I could not concentrate on the show.

Now, who else could write a line like “I couldn’t say ‘yes’ with conviction so I said what he took to be ‘no’.”? I think it’s brilliant.

Another line of simple richness, from Lackadaisy Masie:

The tinker he was a dashing man,
flashing his smile so splendid.
The women would flock around his van
and buy what they’d never intended.

“and buy what they’d never intended.” The line is perfection, and the rhyme astonishing.

I conclude this brief tribute to the undeservedly unsung Forman Brown with the first few lines of Lackadaisy Masie, ones I think we can all sink our sympathies in:

The lady named Masie lived all alone
in a ramshackle house by the river.
She lived in a world that was all her own,
and the village could never forgive her.
If she wanted to sweep by the light of the moon
she took her broom and swept;
if she wanted to stay in her bed till noon
she lay in her bed and slept.

Eat your heart out, Oscar Hammerstein.

FAQ: Soc.Motss History

How it all started

The acronym “motss” comes from a similar one used in the former newsgroup net.singles (“What do you do if you’re in a bar and a MOTOS walks up to you…”). When the newsgroup was first created (1983), people were nervous about having a highly visible gay group, and “net.motss” was an acceptable compromise.

Steve Dyer created net.motss on October 7, 1983. After the great newsgroup renaming in 1987, it became soc.motss. Here is the initial posting:

  Net.motss is a forum for the discussion of
  gay-related issues of interest to all members of
  Usenet. Its name is an acronym for "members of the
  same sex", coined by contributors to net.singles as
  an analogue to MOTOS - "member of the opposite sex."
  It is therefore, unfortunately, a euphemism of sorts
  - an alternative to the preferred 'net.gay'.
  Nevertheless, the proponents of the group have gladly
  passed on this minor issue so that the group should
  be swiftly formed. [After a year of operation, it was
  suggested that net.motss change its name to net.gay,
  in recognition of its success which confounded even
  its staunchest critics. However, by that time, the
  acronym 'motss' was pretty well established in the
  Usenet community. -SD]

  Net.motss is designed to foster discussion on a wide
  variety of topics, such as health problems,
  parenting, relationships, clearances, job security
  and many others. Gay members of Usenet will find this
  a supportive environment for the discussion of issues
  which have immediate impact on their everyday lives.
  Those who aren't gay have an opportunity to be
  informed by the discussion, and are encouraged to
  read the news items and contribute their own
  questions and opinions.

  Net.motss is emphatically NOT a newsgroup for the
  discussion of whether homosexuality is good or bad,
  natural or unnatural. Nor is it a place where conduct
  unsuitable for the net will be allowed or condoned.
  Rather, like every Usenet news group, it is an
  opportunity for people all across the world to
  express their opinions, exchange ideas, and come to
  appreciate the diversity within the Usenet
  membership.

  /Steve Dyer

Why not a more obvious name, like soc.lesbigay?

Such a change has been suggested many times. Some people feel the present identity gives soc.motss a unique culture and changing the name would change the tenor of the group. Furthermore, no one has suggested a name that a majority of the participants like.

Carnality Plus

air warning: These items are sexually explicit.

Bradley Clymer: The Dan Saga (0 ??? 1989).

Jojo: The Truth About Mansex (3 Oct 1989).

Jojo: The REAL Rock Hudson? (20 Jan 1990).

Jojo: Jojo’s Guide to Dating Men (23 Jan 1990).

Arnold Zwicky: Roseate Tom (12 Aug 1991).

Jojo: Sex-Club Etiquette (16 Dec 1992).

Jake Coughlin: Topping (3 Apr 1996).

Greg Havican: Love Among the Scents (7 May 1996).

Nick Fitch: Michael, the Red-Schlonged Canuck (10 Nov 1996).

Jojo: The Bears (4 May 1997).

Arnold Zwicky: Improve Your Taste! (22 Nov 2002).

Arnold Zwicky: Sexual Surprises (7 Dec 2002).

Arnold Zwicky: Pleasures (8 Dec 2002).

Arnold Zwicky: Re: Pleasures (8 Dec 2002).

Arnold Zwicky: Sweet Romance (12 Dec 2002).

Arnold Zwicky: Four Scenes at the Baths (25 Dec 2002).

Arnold Zwicky: Re: Four Scenes at the Baths (25 Dec 2002).

Arnold Zwicky: Re: Straight Guys 1 (15 Feb 2003).

Motss.Con Reports

San Francisco, 1988

Boston, 1989

Denver, 1990

London/Oxford, 1990

Richard Aceves: UK.Motss.Con 1990 (2 May 1990).

Jimmy Aitken: UK.Motss.Con 1990 (2 May 1990).

Karl Elvis MacRae: UK.Motss.Con 1990 (3 May 1990).

Michael Gray: UK.Mini.Con 1990 (29 Aug 1990).

Toronto, 1991

Portland OR, 1992

Boston, 1993

Las Vegas: October 6-10, 1994

Anonymous: Attendees (10 Oct 1994).

David Freedman: Las Vegas Con 1994 (10 Oct 1994).

Andrew Gerber: Las Vegas Con 1994 (11 Oct 1994).

Alan Stacey: Las Vegas Con 1994 (12 Oct 1994).

Kenji Matsuoka: Las Vegas Con 1994 (12 Oct 1994).

Josh Simon: Las Vegas Con 1994 (12 Oct 1994).

Nick Fitch: Las Vegas Con 1994 (12 Oct 1994).

Nick Fitch: Las Vegas Con 1994 (12 Oct 1994).

Nick Fitch: Las Vegas Con 1994 (13 Oct 1994).

John Dorrance: Las Vegas Con 1994 (13 Oct 1994).

Chuck Hanrahan: Las Vegas Con 1994 (14 Oct 1994).

Eric Andersson & Chris Cobb: Las Vegas Con 1994 (14 Oct 1994).

Robert Coren: Las Vegas Con 1994 (14 Oct 1994).

Chuck Hanrahan: Las Vegas Con 1994 (15 Oct 1994).

Vincent Sui: Las Vegas Con 1994 (15 Oct 1994).

John Dorrance: Las Vegas Con 1994 (18 Oct 1994).

Anonymous: Las Vegas Con 1994 T-Shirt (3 Dec 1994).

Washington DC, 1995

Chicago, 1996

Netherlands, 1996

Marina Muilwijk: Euro.Con.1 (16 Sep 1996).

Paul Pries: Euro.Con.1 (23 Sep 1996).

San Francisco, 1997

Pittsburgh, 1998

Arnold Zwicky: Motss.Con.11 (27 Jun 1998).

Memphis, 1999

Ken Rudolph: Memphis Con 1999 (4 Oct 1999).

Ned Deily: Memphis Con 1999 (5 Oct 1999).

Fred Vaughn: Memphis Con 1999 (5 Oct 1999).

David Broudy: Memphis Con 1999 (5 Oct 1999).

Mike Reaser: Memphis Con 1999 (6 Oct 1999).

Lisa Cohen: Memphis Con 1999 (8 Oct 1999).

Tim Wilson: Memphis Con 1999 (8 Oct 1999).

Robert Cumming: Memphis Con 1999 (12 Oct 1999).

David Broudy: Memphis Con 1999 (15 Oct 1999).

Josh Simon: Memphis Con 1999 (29 Oct 1999).

Utrecht, 2000

Marina Muilwijk: First Days of the Con (17 Aug 2000).

Marina Muilwijk: Last Days of the Con (21 Aug 2000).

Chris Hansen: Re: Last Days of the Con (21 Aug 2000).

Robert Coren: Re: Last Days of the Con (21 Aug 2000).

John Gintell: Re: Last Days of the Con (22 Aug 2000).

Marina Muilwijk: Re: Giovanni van Bronckhorst, Motss.Con XIII and Other Scots-Dutch Overlaps (26 Aug 2000).

Palo Alto, Burlingham Mini-Con, 2001

Lisa Cohen: The Burlingham Mini-Con (30 Jul 2001).

Arnold Zwicky: Re: The Burlingham Mini-Con (1 Aug 2001).

Lisa Cohen: Re: The Burlingham Mini-Con (1 Aug 2001).

Stockholm, 2001

Marina Muilwijk: Con (Part 1: Stockholm) (20 Sep 2001).

Marina Muilwijk: Con (Part 2: Amsterdam) (20 Sep 2001).

Ken Rudolph: Ken’s Con Report (Part 1 of ?) (20 Sep 2001).

Ken Rudolph: The Rest of Ken’s Euro Con Trip Report! (24 Sep 2001).

Robert Cumming: Stockholm Motsscon 14: the Self-Portrait Gallery (24 Sep 2001).

Ned Deily: Re: Stockholm Motsscon 14: the Self-Portrait Gallery (24 Sep 2001).

Los Angeles, 2002

Ken Rudolph: Motss.Con XV (5 Jan 2002).

Ken Rudolph: Motss.Con XV Semi-Officially Starts (8 Aug 2002).

David Johnson: Re: Motss.Con XV Semi-Officially Starts (13 Aug 2002).

Ellen Evans: Re: Motss.Con XV Semi-Officially Starts (13 Aug 2002).

Robert Coren: Robert’s Trip Report (18 Aug 2002).

Ithaca, 2003

Gwendolyn Dean: Motss.Con XVI Proposal: Ithaca 2003 (21 Jan 2003).

Gwendolyn Dean: Motss.Con XVI: Con Hotel (2 Apr 2003).

Kevin Michael Vail: The Toby .Con (6 Jul 2003).

John Gintell: Another Set of Con Pictures and a Brief Report (9 Jul 2003).

Chris Ambidge: Re: Con Photos (9 Jul 2003).

Jacksonville Beach, 2004

Dennis Lewis: 2004 Con Proposal (13 Jan 2004).

Ellen Evans: Re: Some Con Pics (11 Oct 2004).

Dennis Lewis: (A Very Belated) Con Report (30 Oct 2004).

Vancouver, 2005

Max Meredith Vasilatos: Back from the Con (25 Jul 2005).

Arnold Zwicky: The Motsscon Group (27 Jul 2005).

Ann Burlingham: Re: The Motsscon Group (27 Jul 2005).

Leroy Dominique: Re: The Motsscon Group (27 Jul 2005).

Max Meredith Vasilatos: Re: The Motsscon Group (27 Jul 2005).

Ken Rudolph: Re: The Motsscon Group (27 Jul 2005).

Leroy Dominique: Re: The Motsscon Group (28 Jul 2005).

Ken Rudolph: Re: The Motsscon Group (29 Jul 2005).

Josh Simon: Motss.Con.XVIII: Trip Report (30 Jul 2005).

Robert Coren: A Few Vancouver Musings (1 Aug 2005).

John Gintell: Re: A Few Vancouver Musings (2 Aug 2005).

Birthdays Of Soc.Motss Participants

If you read soc.motss regularly you know that tempers can run hot and that sometimes issues you take to be very minor can become the seed of sprawling discussions drifting far, far from the original topic. It’s just part of the turf.

But there’s a warm, soft underbelly to the place, too. People get to know each other in real life. They send each other letters and cards, care for one another and remember birthdays. Think of it as attending to the welfare and happiness of 238 of your closest friends. You might enjoy it and they almost certainly will.

To be added to the list, send email to info@soc-motss.org. The list is sorted by name, by month/day, by age, and by zodiac sun sign. Some people haven’t disclosed their birth year; maybe they’ve been around since the year 1, so that’s where they’re sorted. EndMark

Sorted by name

Sim Aberson Oct 25, 1964
Michael Abramson Mar 03, 1965
Richard Aceves Jul 27, 1959
Arne Adolfsen Dec 09, 1955
Donald Agarrat Feb 22, 19??
Tripp Ames Nov 27, 1944
Jess Anderson May 17, 1935
Spencer M. Anspach Feb 20, 1968
Emanuel Ax Jun 08, 1949
Mary Ballard Jul 11, 1957
Tom Barrett Jul 16, 1960
Terry Bartlett May 11, 1964
Alan Batie Sep 24, 1958
Dan Benfield May 15, 1971
Bob Boutwell Jun 25, 1947
Bill Brennan Nov 07, 1954
Jeff Bridges Dec 04, 1949
Allen Briskin Sep 04, 1957
David Broudy May 05, 1962
Justin Brown Aug 27, 1973
Ann Burlingham Mar 12, 1964
Kathryn Burlingham May 16, 1965
Roger Caldwell Aug 03, 1967
Ken Callicott Dec 10, 1968
Manuel Campagna Sep 10, 1946
Felipe Campos Sep 29, 1968
Gary Caplan Apr 21, 1943
Brent Capps Dec 26, 1960
Richard Carels Apr 26, 1958
Jack Carroll Apr 29, 1938
Steve Carter Aug 02, 1955
Ri-Jen Chou Dec 06, 19??
Tom Christiansen Feb 12, 1963
Leith Chu Feb 01, 1968
Darren Scott Cobb Feb 23, 1969
Lisa Cohen Aug 03, 1959
Clay Colwell Jun 17, 1964
Robert Coren May 15, 1946
Coren/Gintells Sep 15, 1973
Carleton Cornish Jul 12, 1956
David Coster Feb 01, 1961
Derik Cowen Apr 27, 1975
Ayana Craven Feb 11, 1960
Robert Cumming Jun 18, 1967
DRS Jan 02, 1963
Reno Dal Feb 02, 1955
Alex Darke Feb 14, 1972
Brent Davies Jan 04, 1956
Jed Davis Dec 19, 1981
Gwendolyn Dean Sep 23, 1960
Ned Deily Dec 16, 1952
Nicholas Demers Jul 15, 1971
Tom Desmond Nov 04, 1962
Thierry Diogon Oct 07, 1967
Leroy Dominique Nov 25, 1968
Bob Donahue Oct 10, 1962
Ryan Donnelly Mar 25, 1978
John Dorrance Jun 21, 1972
Steve Dyer Mar 14, 19??
Daniel Edmonds Aug 25, 1970
Victoria Edwards May 06, 1968
Lars Eighner Nov 25, 1948
George Elizondo May 24, 1974
Jimm Ellingsen Jun 08, 1951
Alex Elliott Sep 26, 1968
Frank Elliott Aug 24, 1961
Ellen Evans Nov 13, 19??
Tim Evanson Jan 23, 1965
Tom Farrell Jun 30, 1972
Bob Feiertag Feb 27, 1939
David Fenton Jan 25, 1962
Peggy Fieland Aug 23, 1946
John Fisher Apr 11, 1945
Nick Fitch Mar 01, 1965
Kira Fobbs Nov 20, 1963
Tim Fogarty Apr 14, 1959
Carl Fongheiser Feb 10, 1965
Buck Foss Dec 22, 1958
Sammie Foss Mar 20, 1964
Joe Francis Sep 02, 1962
Charlie Fulton Feb 12, 1965
Diana Galletly Aug 31, 1974
Carson Gasper Oct 02, 1972
Andrew Gerber Aug 15, 1965
Steve Giammarco Aug 08, 1954
Robert Gill Oct 23, 1965
John Gintell Oct 19, 1938
Roger Grauwmeijer Jan 19, 1959
Brian Haber Mar 01, 1960
Jack Hamilton Jun 07, 19??
Michael Handler Aug 19, 1977
Chris Hansen Nov 08, 1952
Robert Hansen Dec 30, 1962
Donald L. Hardy Apr 13, 19??
Trey Harris Jan 15, 1975
John Hartley Dec 28, 1973
Greg Havican Feb 18, 1957
Michael Hennahane Mar 04, 1967
Shawn Hicks Dec 01, 1965
Mary Jo Hood Feb 12, 1951
David Horne Dec 12, 1970
Charles Howard May 24, 1964
Christopher Hughes Sep 20, 1974
Wayne Hughes Dec 08, 1955
Franklin Hummel May 01, 0001
David Hunt Feb 14, 1959
Fred Huntington May 30, 1942
Don Huppert Dec 23, 1954
Danny Ingram Dec 02, 19??
Michael Isabell Apr 04, 1950
Richard Jasper Apr 11, 1958
Bobb Johns Apr 30, 1951
Steve Jones Dec 29, 1971
Morten Kabell Apr 28, 1970
Brian Kane Jun 04, 1964
Harry Kaplan Jul 10, 1954
Gary Kelly May 28, 1974
Champ Knecht Jul 17, 1965
Brian Kochera Jan 23, 1951
Ilona Koren-Deutsch Feb 20, 1966
Stewart Kramer Sep 26, 1965
Zinka Milanov (nee Kunc)- May 17, 1906
Ava LaMotte Aug 20, 1969
Richard E. Lamberty Jun 11, 1959
C.L. Lassiter Jul 21, 1950
Kwok F. Lau May 26, 1956
Lee Lawrence Feb 01, 19??
Allen Lee Feb 20, 1942
Joel Levin Dec 14, 1948
Tom Limoncelli Dec 02, 1968
John Lindner Apr 12, 1962
Beth Linker Jul 01, 1976
Mike Lipsie Jul 01, 19??
George Louis Dec 09, 1960
Brad Macdonald Jan 15, 1954
Fred Maffray Aug 19, 1960
Jeremy Mallory Sep 27, 1973
Frank Maloney Sep 09, 1945
Kenji Matsuoka May 29, 1969
Tim McDaniel Apr 04, 1963
Christopher McGahan Dec 25, 1946
Mike McKinley May 07, 1954
Éamonn McManus Feb 17, 19??
Mike McManus Mar 02, 1965
Matthew Melmon Nov 26, 1965
Anneli Meyer Jan 27, 1963
Alan Miles Nov 07, 1965
Brent Miller Apr 24, 1949
Gary Miller Mar 08, 1949
Nelson Minar Mar 03, 1972
Misha Mar 04, 1961
Christian Molick Apr 26, 1967
James Moore Aug 16, 1957
David Morck Jul 11, 1964
David Morgan Sep 12, 1969
Kaaren Morrison Jul 27, 1959
Marina Muilwijk Dec 14, 1963
Ailsa Murphy Nov 18, 1963
Peggy Boucher Murphy Sep 03, 1963
Frank Neves Mar 28, 1953
Michael Nieuwenhuizen Dec 30, 1969
Rod O’Connor Jun 05, 1961
Aric Olnes Jul 13, 1965
Rebecca Ore May 05, 19??
Greg Parkinson Sep 17, 1956
Will Parsons Oct 27, 1967
Bill Peachee Mar 09, 1969
David Phillips Jun 27, 1955
Tim Pierce Nov 12, 1970
Paul Pries Jun 06, 1960
Gary Probe Mar 14, 1961
Mark Proffitt Mar 19, 1963
Mark Quigley Jul 13, 1970
Urs Rüetschi Nov 14, 1963
Joy Ralph Oct 03, 1966
Larry Re Apr 09, 19??
Mike Reaser Jan 27, 1962
George V. Reilly Mar 15, 1965
Paul Richard Jul 24, 1950
Ed Ricketts Jun 02, 1932
Emily Rizzo Aug 28, 1947
K.R. Roberto Jul 23, 1975
John Rudolph Dec 01, 1952
Ken Rudolph Aug 27, 1941
Scott Safier Mar 03, 1963
Iskandar Saim Aug 13, 19??
Naoyuki Saito May 04, 1969
Tapani Salminen Apr 07, 1962
Bill Salmons Dec 28, 1968
Matthew Savoie Nov 22, 1968
Dvora Silberman Sep 09, 1973
Andrew Simchik Oct 26, 1974
Josh Simon Nov 13, 1968
Amelia Smith Jun 07, 1956
Gene Smith Nov 28, 19??
Sandy Smith Oct 22, 1958
Stephanie Smith Jun 28, 1966
Howard Solomon Apr 09, 1964
Tigran Spaan Dec 04, 1966
David Speakman Feb 04, 1968
Edward Spodick Sep 03, 1960
Geordi Steele Dec 02, 1965
Tyler Stevens Jul 11, 1966
Jerry Stone Aug 28, 1973
Debby Swayne Jan 06, 1952
Eric Swedenborg Nov 10, 1972
Rod Swift Nov 20, 1972
Frank Swilling Oct 21, 1950
Season Marie Taylor Feb 20, 1974
Vadim Temkin Jul 28, 1961
Mike Thomas Oct 22, 1960
Don Thomson Apr 25, 1952
Kevin Michael Vail Jul 21, 1955
Max Vasilatos Feb 13, 1958
Fred Vaughn Aug 19, 1970
Brian Vogel Apr 25, 1962
Amanda Walker Jun 19, 1964
Christopher Walker Apr 10, 19??
Kevin Walsh Jan 31, 1959
Dave Walster Feb 29, 1964
Kevin Ward Sep 09, 1957
Mark Wasson Jun 16, 1961
Kevin Waterman Nov 13, 1965
Powell Way Oct 06, 1946
David Weinberg Nov 16, 1974
John Whiteside Jul 31, 19??
Jack Wilkinson Aug 20, 1954
Gaye Willard Feb 24, 1950
Duane Williams Feb 15, 1947
Geoff Williams Sep 08, 1966
Rod Williams Nov 22, 1952
Tim Wilson Nov 21, 1956
Doug Wyman Nov 15, 19??
Corry Wyngaarden Oct 22, 1942
Raymond Zada May 31, 1971
Brad Zaller Feb 08, 1965
Arnold Zwicky Sep 06, 1940
Elizabeth Zwicky Feb 14, 1965

Sorted by month/day

DRS Jan 02, 1963
Brent Davies Jan 04, 1956
Debby Swayne Jan 06, 1952
Brad Macdonald Jan 15, 1954
Trey Harris Jan 15, 1975
Roger Grauwmeijer Jan 19, 1959
Brian Kochera Jan 23, 1951
Tim Evanson Jan 23, 1965
David Fenton Jan 25, 1962
Mike Reaser Jan 27, 1962
Anneli Meyer Jan 27, 1963
Kevin Walsh Jan 31, 1959
David Coster Feb 01, 1961
Leith Chu Feb 01, 1968
Lee Lawrence Feb 01, 19??
Reno Dal Feb 02, 1955
David Speakman Feb 04, 1968
Brad Zaller Feb 08, 1965
Carl Fongheiser Feb 10, 1965
Ayana Craven Feb 11, 1960
Mary Jo Hood Feb 12, 1951
Tom Christiansen Feb 12, 1963
Charlie Fulton Feb 12, 1965
Max Vasilatos Feb 13, 1958
David Hunt Feb 14, 1959
Elizabeth Zwicky Feb 14, 1965
Alex Darke Feb 14, 1972
Duane Williams Feb 15, 1947
Éamonn McManus Feb 17, 19??
Greg Havican Feb 18, 1957
Allen Lee Feb 20, 1942
Ilona Koren-Deutsch Feb 20, 1966
Spencer M. Anspach Feb 20, 1968
Season Marie Taylor Feb 20, 1974
Donald Agarrat Feb 22, 19??
Darren Scott Cobb Feb 23, 1969
Gaye Willard Feb 24, 1950
Bob Feiertag Feb 27, 1939
Dave Walster Feb 29, 1964
Brian Haber Mar 01, 1960
Nick Fitch Mar 01, 1965
Mike McManus Mar 02, 1965
Scott Safier Mar 03, 1963
Michael Abramson Mar 03, 1965
Nelson Minar Mar 03, 1972
Misha Mar 04, 1961
Michael Hennahane Mar 04, 1967
Gary Miller Mar 08, 1949
Bill Peachee Mar 09, 1969
Ann Burlingham Mar 12, 1964
Gary Probe Mar 14, 1961
Steve Dyer Mar 14, 19??
George V. Reilly Mar 15, 1965
Mark Proffitt Mar 19, 1963
Sammie Foss Mar 20, 1964
Ryan Donnelly Mar 25, 1978
Frank Neves Mar 28, 1953
Michael Isabell Apr 04, 1950
Tim McDaniel Apr 04, 1963
Tapani Salminen Apr 07, 1962
Howard Solomon Apr 09, 1964
Larry Re Apr 09, 19??
Christopher Walker Apr 10, 19??
John Fisher Apr 11, 1945
Richard Jasper Apr 11, 1958
John Lindner Apr 12, 1962
Donald L. Hardy Apr 13, 19??
Tim Fogarty Apr 14, 1959
Gary Caplan Apr 21, 1943
Brent Miller Apr 24, 1949
Don Thomson Apr 25, 1952
Brian Vogel Apr 25, 1962
Richard Carels Apr 26, 1958
Christian Molick Apr 26, 1967
Derik Cowen Apr 27, 1975
Morten Kabell Apr 28, 1970
Jack Carroll Apr 29, 1938
Bobb Johns Apr 30, 1951
Franklin Hummel May 01, 0001
Naoyuki Saito May 04, 1969
David Broudy May 05, 1962
Rebecca Ore May 05, 19??
Victoria Edwards May 06, 1968
Mike McKinley May 07, 1954
Terry Bartlett May 11, 1964
Robert Coren May 15, 1946
Dan Benfield May 15, 1971
Kathryn Burlingham May 16, 1965
Zinka Milanov (nee Kunc)- May 17, 1906
Jess Anderson May 17, 1935
Charles Howard May 24, 1964
George Elizondo May 24, 1974
Kwok F. Lau May 26, 1956
Gary Kelly May 28, 1974
Kenji Matsuoka May 29, 1969
Fred Huntington May 30, 1942
Raymond Zada May 31, 1971
Ed Ricketts Jun 02, 1932
Brian Kane Jun 04, 1964
Rod O’Connor Jun 05, 1961
Paul Pries Jun 06, 1960
Amelia Smith Jun 07, 1956
Jack Hamilton Jun 07, 19??
Emanuel Ax Jun 08, 1949
Jimm Ellingsen Jun 08, 1951
Richard E. Lamberty Jun 11, 1959
Mark Wasson Jun 16, 1961
Clay Colwell Jun 17, 1964
Robert Cumming Jun 18, 1967
Amanda Walker Jun 19, 1964
John Dorrance Jun 21, 1972
Bob Boutwell Jun 25, 1947
David Phillips Jun 27, 1955
Stephanie Smith Jun 28, 1966
Tom Farrell Jun 30, 1972
Beth Linker Jul 01, 1976
Mike Lipsie Jul 01, 19??
Harry Kaplan Jul 10, 1954
Mary Ballard Jul 11, 1957
David Morck Jul 11, 1964
Tyler Stevens Jul 11, 1966
Carleton Cornish Jul 12, 1956
Aric Olnes Jul 13, 1965
Mark Quigley Jul 13, 1970
Nicholas Demers Jul 15, 1971
Tom Barrett Jul 16, 1960
Champ Knecht Jul 17, 1965
C.L. Lassiter Jul 21, 1950
Kevin Michael Vail Jul 21, 1955
K.R. Roberto Jul 23, 1975
Paul Richard Jul 24, 1950
Kaaren Morrison Jul 27, 1959
Richard Aceves Jul 27, 1959
Vadim Temkin Jul 28, 1961
John Whiteside Jul 31, 19??
Steve Carter Aug 02, 1955
Lisa Cohen Aug 03, 1959
Roger Caldwell Aug 03, 1967
Steve Giammarco Aug 08, 1954
Iskandar Saim Aug 13, 19??
Andrew Gerber Aug 15, 1965
James Moore Aug 16, 1957
Fred Maffray Aug 19, 1960
Fred Vaughn Aug 19, 1970
Michael Handler Aug 19, 1977
Jack Wilkinson Aug 20, 1954
Ava LaMotte Aug 20, 1969
Peggy Fieland Aug 23, 1946
Frank Elliott Aug 24, 1961
Daniel Edmonds Aug 25, 1970
Ken Rudolph Aug 27, 1941
Justin Brown Aug 27, 1973
Emily Rizzo Aug 28, 1947
Jerry Stone Aug 28, 1973
Diana Galletly Aug 31, 1974
Joe Francis Sep 02, 1962
Edward Spodick Sep 03, 1960
Peggy Boucher Murphy Sep 03, 1963
Allen Briskin Sep 04, 1957
Arnold Zwicky Sep 06, 1940
Geoff Williams Sep 08, 1966
Frank Maloney Sep 09, 1945
Kevin Ward Sep 09, 1957
Dvora Silberman Sep 09, 1973
Manuel Campagna Sep 10, 1946
David Morgan Sep 12, 1969
Coren/Gintells Sep 15, 1973
Greg Parkinson Sep 17, 1956
Christopher Hughes Sep 20, 1974
Gwendolyn Dean Sep 23, 1960
Alan Batie Sep 24, 1958
Stewart Kramer Sep 26, 1965
Alex Elliott Sep 26, 1968
Jeremy Mallory Sep 27, 1973
Felipe Campos Sep 29, 1968
Carson Gasper Oct 02, 1972
Joy Ralph Oct 03, 1966
Powell Way Oct 06, 1946
Thierry Diogon Oct 07, 1967
Bob Donahue Oct 10, 1962
John Gintell Oct 19, 1938
Frank Swilling Oct 21, 1950
Corry Wyngaarden Oct 22, 1942
Sandy Smith Oct 22, 1958
Mike Thomas Oct 22, 1960
Robert Gill Oct 23, 1965
Sim Aberson Oct 25, 1964
Andrew Simchik Oct 26, 1974
Will Parsons Oct 27, 1967
Tom Desmond Nov 04, 1962
Bill Brennan Nov 07, 1954
Alan Miles Nov 07, 1965
Chris Hansen Nov 08, 1952
Eric Swedenborg Nov 10, 1972
Tim Pierce Nov 12, 1970
Kevin Waterman Nov 13, 1965
Josh Simon Nov 13, 1968
Ellen Evans Nov 13, 19??
Urs Rüetschi Nov 14, 1963
Doug Wyman Nov 15, 19??
David Weinberg Nov 16, 1974
Ailsa Murphy Nov 18, 1963
Kira Fobbs Nov 20, 1963
Rod Swift Nov 20, 1972
Tim Wilson Nov 21, 1956
Rod Williams Nov 22, 1952
Matthew Savoie Nov 22, 1968
Lars Eighner Nov 25, 1948
Leroy Dominique Nov 25, 1968
Matthew Melmon Nov 26, 1965
Tripp Ames Nov 27, 1944
Gene Smith Nov 28, 19??
John Rudolph Dec 01, 1952
Shawn Hicks Dec 01, 1965
Geordi Steele Dec 02, 1965
Tom Limoncelli Dec 02, 1968
Danny Ingram Dec 02, 19??
Jeff Bridges Dec 04, 1949
Tigran Spaan Dec 04, 1966
Ri-Jen Chou Dec 06, 19??
Wayne Hughes Dec 08, 1955
Arne Adolfsen Dec 09, 1955
George Louis Dec 09, 1960
Ken Callicott Dec 10, 1968
David Horne Dec 12, 1970
Joel Levin Dec 14, 1948
Marina Muilwijk Dec 14, 1963
Ned Deily Dec 16, 1952
Jed Davis Dec 19, 1981
Buck Foss Dec 22, 1958
Don Huppert Dec 23, 1954
Christopher McGahan Dec 25, 1946
Brent Capps Dec 26, 1960
Bill Salmons Dec 28, 1968
John Hartley Dec 28, 1973
Steve Jones Dec 29, 1971
Robert Hansen Dec 30, 1962
Michael Nieuwenhuizen Dec 30, 1969

Sorted by age

Lee Lawrence Feb 01, 0001
Éamonn McManus Feb 17, 0001
Donald Agarrat Feb 22, 0001
Steve Dyer Mar 14, 0001
Larry Re Apr 09, 0001
Christopher Walker Apr 10, 0001
Donald L. Hardy Apr 13, 0001
Franklin Hummel May 01, 0001
Rebecca Ore May 05, 0001
Jack Hamilton Jun 07, 0001
Mike Lipsie Jul 01, 0001
John Whiteside Jul 31, 0001
Iskandar Saim Aug 13, 0001
Ellen Evans Nov 13, 0001
Doug Wyman Nov 15, 0001
Gene Smith Nov 28, 0001
Danny Ingram Dec 02, 0001
Ri-Jen Chou Dec 06, 0001
Zinka Milanov (nee Kunc)- May 17, 1906
Ed Ricketts Jun 02, 1932
Jess Anderson May 17, 1935
Jack Carroll Apr 29, 1938
John Gintell Oct 19, 1938
Bob Feiertag Feb 27, 1939
Arnold Zwicky Sep 06, 1940
Ken Rudolph Aug 27, 1941
Allen Lee Feb 20, 1942
Fred Huntington May 30, 1942
Corry Wyngaarden Oct 22, 1942
Gary Caplan Apr 21, 1943
Tripp Ames Nov 27, 1944
John Fisher Apr 11, 1945
Frank Maloney Sep 09, 1945
Robert Coren May 15, 1946
Peggy Fieland Aug 23, 1946
Manuel Campagna Sep 10, 1946
Powell Way Oct 06, 1946
Christopher McGahan Dec 25, 1946
Duane Williams Feb 15, 1947
Bob Boutwell Jun 25, 1947
Emily Rizzo Aug 28, 1947
Lars Eighner Nov 25, 1948
Joel Levin Dec 14, 1948
Gary Miller Mar 08, 1949
Brent Miller Apr 24, 1949
Emanuel Ax Jun 08, 1949
Jeff Bridges Dec 04, 1949
Gaye Willard Feb 24, 1950
Michael Isabell Apr 04, 1950
C.L. Lassiter Jul 21, 1950
Paul Richard Jul 24, 1950
Frank Swilling Oct 21, 1950
Brian Kochera Jan 23, 1951
Mary Jo Hood Feb 12, 1951
Bobb Johns Apr 30, 1951
Jimm Ellingsen Jun 08, 1951
Debby Swayne Jan 06, 1952
Don Thomson Apr 25, 1952
Chris Hansen Nov 08, 1952
Rod Williams Nov 22, 1952
John Rudolph Dec 01, 1952
Ned Deily Dec 16, 1952
Frank Neves Mar 28, 1953
Brad Macdonald Jan 15, 1954
Mike McKinley May 07, 1954
Harry Kaplan Jul 10, 1954
Steve Giammarco Aug 08, 1954
Jack Wilkinson Aug 20, 1954
Bill Brennan Nov 07, 1954
Don Huppert Dec 23, 1954
Reno Dal Feb 02, 1955
David Phillips Jun 27, 1955
Kevin Michael Vail Jul 21, 1955
Steve Carter Aug 02, 1955
Wayne Hughes Dec 08, 1955
Arne Adolfsen Dec 09, 1955
Brent Davies Jan 04, 1956
Kwok F. Lau May 26, 1956
Amelia Smith Jun 07, 1956
Carleton Cornish Jul 12, 1956
Greg Parkinson Sep 17, 1956
Tim Wilson Nov 21, 1956
Greg Havican Feb 18, 1957
Mary Ballard Jul 11, 1957
James Moore Aug 16, 1957
Allen Briskin Sep 04, 1957
Kevin Ward Sep 09, 1957
Max Vasilatos Feb 13, 1958
Richard Jasper Apr 11, 1958
Richard Carels Apr 26, 1958
Alan Batie Sep 24, 1958
Sandy Smith Oct 22, 1958
Buck Foss Dec 22, 1958
Roger Grauwmeijer Jan 19, 1959
Kevin Walsh Jan 31, 1959
David Hunt Feb 14, 1959
Tim Fogarty Apr 14, 1959
Richard E. Lamberty Jun 11, 1959
Kaaren Morrison Jul 27, 1959
Richard Aceves Jul 27, 1959
Lisa Cohen Aug 03, 1959
Ayana Craven Feb 11, 1960
Brian Haber Mar 01, 1960
Paul Pries Jun 06, 1960
Tom Barrett Jul 16, 1960
Fred Maffray Aug 19, 1960
Edward Spodick Sep 03, 1960
Gwendolyn Dean Sep 23, 1960
Mike Thomas Oct 22, 1960
George Louis Dec 09, 1960
Brent Capps Dec 26, 1960
David Coster Feb 01, 1961
Misha Mar 04, 1961
Gary Probe Mar 14, 1961
Rod O’Connor Jun 05, 1961
Mark Wasson Jun 16, 1961
Vadim Temkin Jul 28, 1961
Frank Elliott Aug 24, 1961
David Fenton Jan 25, 1962
Mike Reaser Jan 27, 1962
Tapani Salminen Apr 07, 1962
John Lindner Apr 12, 1962
Brian Vogel Apr 25, 1962
David Broudy May 05, 1962
Joe Francis Sep 02, 1962
Bob Donahue Oct 10, 1962
Tom Desmond Nov 04, 1962
Robert Hansen Dec 30, 1962
DRS Jan 02, 1963
Anneli Meyer Jan 27, 1963
Tom Christiansen Feb 12, 1963
Scott Safier Mar 03, 1963
Mark Proffitt Mar 19, 1963
Tim McDaniel Apr 04, 1963
Peggy Boucher Murphy Sep 03, 1963
Urs Rüetschi Nov 14, 1963
Ailsa Murphy Nov 18, 1963
Kira Fobbs Nov 20, 1963
Marina Muilwijk Dec 14, 1963
Dave Walster Feb 29, 1964
Ann Burlingham Mar 12, 1964
Sammie Foss Mar 20, 1964
Howard Solomon Apr 09, 1964
Terry Bartlett May 11, 1964
Charles Howard May 24, 1964
Brian Kane Jun 04, 1964
Clay Colwell Jun 17, 1964
Amanda Walker Jun 19, 1964
David Morck Jul 11, 1964
Sim Aberson Oct 25, 1964
Tim Evanson Jan 23, 1965
Brad Zaller Feb 08, 1965
Carl Fongheiser Feb 10, 1965
Charlie Fulton Feb 12, 1965
Elizabeth Zwicky Feb 14, 1965
Nick Fitch Mar 01, 1965
Mike McManus Mar 02, 1965
Michael Abramson Mar 03, 1965
George V. Reilly Mar 15, 1965
Kathryn Burlingham May 16, 1965
Aric Olnes Jul 13, 1965
Champ Knecht Jul 17, 1965
Andrew Gerber Aug 15, 1965
Stewart Kramer Sep 26, 1965
Robert Gill Oct 23, 1965
Alan Miles Nov 07, 1965
Kevin Waterman Nov 13, 1965
Matthew Melmon Nov 26, 1965
Shawn Hicks Dec 01, 1965
Geordi Steele Dec 02, 1965
Ilona Koren-Deutsch Feb 20, 1966
Stephanie Smith Jun 28, 1966
Tyler Stevens Jul 11, 1966
Geoff Williams Sep 08, 1966
Joy Ralph Oct 03, 1966
Tigran Spaan Dec 04, 1966
Michael Hennahane Mar 04, 1967
Christian Molick Apr 26, 1967
Robert Cumming Jun 18, 1967
Roger Caldwell Aug 03, 1967
Thierry Diogon Oct 07, 1967
Will Parsons Oct 27, 1967
Leith Chu Feb 01, 1968
David Speakman Feb 04, 1968
Spencer M. Anspach Feb 20, 1968
Victoria Edwards May 06, 1968
Alex Elliott Sep 26, 1968
Felipe Campos Sep 29, 1968
Josh Simon Nov 13, 1968
Matthew Savoie Nov 22, 1968
Leroy Dominique Nov 25, 1968
Tom Limoncelli Dec 02, 1968
Ken Callicott Dec 10, 1968
Bill Salmons Dec 28, 1968
Darren Scott Cobb Feb 23, 1969
Bill Peachee Mar 09, 1969
Naoyuki Saito May 04, 1969
Kenji Matsuoka May 29, 1969
Ava LaMotte Aug 20, 1969
David Morgan Sep 12, 1969
Michael Nieuwenhuizen Dec 30, 1969
Morten Kabell Apr 28, 1970
Mark Quigley Jul 13, 1970
Fred Vaughn Aug 19, 1970
Daniel Edmonds Aug 25, 1970
Tim Pierce Nov 12, 1970
David Horne Dec 12, 1970
Dan Benfield May 15, 1971
Raymond Zada May 31, 1971
Nicholas Demers Jul 15, 1971
Steve Jones Dec 29, 1971
Alex Darke Feb 14, 1972
Nelson Minar Mar 03, 1972
John Dorrance Jun 21, 1972
Tom Farrell Jun 30, 1972
Carson Gasper Oct 02, 1972
Eric Swedenborg Nov 10, 1972
Rod Swift Nov 20, 1972
Justin Brown Aug 27, 1973
Jerry Stone Aug 28, 1973
Dvora Silberman Sep 09, 1973
Coren/Gintells Sep 15, 1973
Jeremy Mallory Sep 27, 1973
John Hartley Dec 28, 1973
Season Marie Taylor Feb 20, 1974
George Elizondo May 24, 1974
Gary Kelly May 28, 1974
Diana Galletly Aug 31, 1974
Christopher Hughes Sep 20, 1974
Andrew Simchik Oct 26, 1974
David Weinberg Nov 16, 1974
Trey Harris Jan 15, 1975
Derik Cowen Apr 27, 1975
K.R. Roberto Jul 23, 1975
Beth Linker Jul 01, 1976
Michael Handler Aug 19, 1977
Ryan Donnelly Mar 25, 1978
Jed Davis Dec 19, 1981

Sorted by sun sign

Aries (Mar 21 – Apr 19)
Ryan Donnelly Mar 25, 1978
Frank Neves Mar 28, 1953
Michael Isabell Apr 04, 1950
Tim McDaniel Apr 04, 1963
Tapani Salminen Apr 07, 1962
Howard Solomon Apr 09, 1964
Larry Re Apr 09, 19??
Christopher Walker Apr 10, 19??
John Fisher Apr 11, 1945
Richard Jasper Apr 11, 1958
John Lindner Apr 12, 1962
Donald L. Hardy Apr 13, 19??
Tim Fogarty Apr 14, 1959

Taurus (Apr 20 – May 20)
Gary Caplan Apr 21, 1943
Brent Miller Apr 24, 1949
Don Thomson Apr 25, 1952
Brian Vogel Apr 25, 1962
Richard Carels Apr 26, 1958
Christian Molick Apr 26, 1967
Derik Cowen Apr 27, 1975
Morten Kabell Apr 28, 1970
Jack Carroll Apr 29, 1938
Bobb Johns Apr 30, 1951
Franklin Hummel May 01, 0001
Naoyuki Saito May 04, 1969
David Broudy May 05, 1962
Rebecca Ore May 05, 19??
Victoria Edwards May 06, 1968
Mike McKinley May 07, 1954
Terry Bartlett May 11, 1964
Robert Coren May 15, 1946
Dan Benfield May 15, 1971
Kathryn Burlingham May 16, 1965
Zinka Milanov (nee Kunc)- May 17, 1906
Jess Anderson May 17, 1935

Gemini (May 21 – Jun 20)
Charles Howard May 24, 1964
George Elizondo May 24, 1974
Kwok F. Lau May 26, 1956
Gary Kelly May 28, 1974
Kenji Matsuoka May 29, 1969
Fred Huntington May 30, 1942
Raymond Zada May 31, 1971
Ed Ricketts Jun 02, 1932
Brian Kane Jun 04, 1964
Rod O’Connor Jun 05, 1961
Paul Pries Jun 06, 1960
Amelia Smith Jun 07, 1956
Jack Hamilton Jun 07, 19??
Emanuel Ax Jun 08, 1949
Jimm Ellingsen Jun 08, 1951
Richard E. Lamberty Jun 11, 1959
Mark Wasson Jun 16, 1961
Clay Colwell Jun 17, 1964
Robert Cumming Jun 18, 1967
Amanda Walker Jun 19, 1964

Cancer (Jun 21 – Jul 22)
John Dorrance Jun 21, 1972
Bob Boutwell Jun 25, 1947
David Phillips Jun 27, 1955
Stephanie Smith Jun 28, 1966
Tom Farrell Jun 30, 1972
Beth Linker Jul 01, 1976
Mike Lipsie Jul 01, 19??
Harry Kaplan Jul 10, 1954
Mary Ballard Jul 11, 1957
David Morck Jul 11, 1964
Tyler Stevens Jul 11, 1966
Carleton Cornish Jul 12, 1956
Aric Olnes Jul 13, 1965
Mark Quigley Jul 13, 1970
Nicholas Demers Jul 15, 1971
Tom Barrett Jul 16, 1960
Champ Knecht Jul 17, 1965
C.L. Lassiter Jul 21, 1950
Kevin Michael Vail Jul 21, 1955

Leo (Jul 23 – Aug 22)
K.R. Roberto Jul 23, 1975
Paul Richard Jul 24, 1950
Kaaren Morrison Jul 27, 1959
Richard Aceves Jul 27, 1959
Vadim Temkin Jul 28, 1961
John Whiteside Jul 31, 19??
Steve Carter Aug 02, 1955
Lisa Cohen Aug 03, 1959
Roger Caldwell Aug 03, 1967
Steve Giammarco Aug 08, 1954
Iskandar Saim Aug 13, 19??
Andrew Gerber Aug 15, 1965
James Moore Aug 16, 1957
Fred Maffray Aug 19, 1960
Fred Vaughn Aug 19, 1970
Michael Handler Aug 19, 1977
Jack Wilkinson Aug 20, 1954
Ava LaMotte Aug 20, 1969

Virgo (Aug 23 – Sep 22)
Peggy Fieland Aug 23, 1946
Frank Elliott Aug 24, 1961
Daniel Edmonds Aug 25, 1970
Ken Rudolph Aug 27, 1941
Justin Brown Aug 27, 1973
Emily Rizzo Aug 28, 1947
Jerry Stone Aug 28, 1973
Diana Galletly Aug 31, 1974
Joe Francis Sep 02, 1962
Edward Spodick Sep 03, 1960
Peggy Boucher Murphy Sep 03, 1963
Allen Briskin Sep 04, 1957
Arnold Zwicky Sep 06, 1940
Geoff Williams Sep 08, 1966
Frank Maloney Sep 09, 1945
Kevin Ward Sep 09, 1957
Dvora Silberman Sep 09, 1973
Manuel Campagna Sep 10, 1946
David Morgan Sep 12, 1969
Coren/Gintells Sep 15, 1973
Greg Parkinson Sep 17, 1956
Christopher Hughes Sep 20, 1974

Libra (Sep 23 – Oct 22)
Gwendolyn Dean Sep 23, 1960
Alan Batie Sep 24, 1958
Stewart Kramer Sep 26, 1965
Alex Elliott Sep 26, 1968
Jeremy Mallory Sep 27, 1973
Felipe Campos Sep 29, 1968
Carson Gasper Oct 02, 1972
Joy Ralph Oct 03, 1966
Powell Way Oct 06, 1946
Thierry Diogon Oct 07, 1967
Bob Donahue Oct 10, 1962
John Gintell Oct 19, 1938
Frank Swilling Oct 21, 1950
Corry Wyngaarden Oct 22, 1942
Sandy Smith Oct 22, 1958
Mike Thomas Oct 22, 1960

Scorpio (Oct 23 – Nov 22)
Robert Gill Oct 23, 1965
Sim Aberson Oct 25, 1964
Andrew Simchik Oct 26, 1974
Will Parsons Oct 27, 1967
Tom Desmond Nov 04, 1962
Bill Brennan Nov 07, 1954
Alan Miles Nov 07, 1965
Chris Hansen Nov 08, 1952
Eric Swedenborg Nov 10, 1972
Tim Pierce Nov 12, 1970
Kevin Waterman Nov 13, 1965
Josh Simon Nov 13, 1968
Ellen Evans Nov 13, 19??
Urs Rüetschi Nov 14, 1963
Doug Wyman Nov 15, 19??
David Weinberg Nov 16, 1974
Ailsa Murphy Nov 18, 1963
Kira Fobbs Nov 20, 1963
Rod Swift Nov 20, 1972
Tim Wilson Nov 21, 1956
Rod Williams Nov 22, 1952
Matthew Savoie Nov 22, 1968

Sagittarius (Nov 23 – Dec 21)
Lars Eighner Nov 25, 1948
Leroy Dominique Nov 25, 1968
Matthew Melmon Nov 26, 1965
Tripp Ames Nov 27, 1944
Gene Smith Nov 28, 19??
John Rudolph Dec 01, 1952
Shawn Hicks Dec 01, 1965
Geordi Steele Dec 02, 1965
Tom Limoncelli Dec 02, 1968
Danny Ingram Dec 02, 19??
Jeff Bridges Dec 04, 1949
Tigran Spaan Dec 04, 1966
Ri-Jen Chou Dec 06, 19??
Wayne Hughes Dec 08, 1955
Arne Adolfsen Dec 09, 1955
George Louis Dec 09, 1960
Ken Callicott Dec 10, 1968
David Horne Dec 12, 1970
Joel Levin Dec 14, 1948
Marina Muilwijk Dec 14, 1963
Ned Deily Dec 16, 1952
Jed Davis Dec 19, 1981

Capricorn (Dec 22 – Jan 19)
Buck Foss Dec 22, 1958
Don Huppert Dec 23, 1954
Christopher McGahan Dec 25, 1946
Brent Capps Dec 26, 1960
Bill Salmons Dec 28, 1968
John Hartley Dec 28, 1973
Steve Jones Dec 29, 1971
Robert Hansen Dec 30, 1962
Michael Nieuwenhuizen Dec 30, 1969
DRS Jan 02, 1963
Brent Davies Jan 04, 1956
Debby Swayne Jan 06, 1952
Brad Macdonald Jan 15, 1954
Trey Harris Jan 15, 1975
Roger Grauwmeijer Jan 19, 1959

Aquarius (Jan 20 – Feb 18)
Brian Kochera Jan 23, 1951
Tim Evanson Jan 23, 1965
David Fenton Jan 25, 1962
Mike Reaser Jan 27, 1962
Anneli Meyer Jan 27, 1963
Kevin Walsh Jan 31, 1959
David Coster Feb 01, 1961
Leith Chu Feb 01, 1968
Lee Lawrence Feb 01, 19??
Reno Dal Feb 02, 1955
David Speakman Feb 04, 1968
Brad Zaller Feb 08, 1965
Carl Fongheiser Feb 10, 1965
Ayana Craven Feb 11, 1960
Mary Jo Hood Feb 12, 1951
Tom Christiansen Feb 12, 1963
Charlie Fulton Feb 12, 1965
Max Vasilatos Feb 13, 1958
David Hunt Feb 14, 1959
Elizabeth Zwicky Feb 14, 1965
Alex Darke Feb 14, 1972
Duane Williams Feb 15, 1947
Éamonn McManus Feb 17, 19??
Greg Havican Feb 18, 1957

Pisces (Feb 19 – Mar 20)
Allen Lee Feb 20, 1942
Ilona Koren-Deutsch Feb 20, 1966
Spencer M. Anspach Feb 20, 1968
Season Marie Taylor Feb 20, 1974
Donald Agarrat Feb 22, 19??
Darren Scott Cobb Feb 23, 1969
Gaye Willard Feb 24, 1950
Bob Feiertag Feb 27, 1939
Dave Walster Feb 29, 1964
Brian Haber Mar 01, 1960
Nick Fitch Mar 01, 1965
Mike McManus Mar 02, 1965
Scott Safier Mar 03, 1963
Michael Abramson Mar 03, 1965
Nelson Minar Mar 03, 1972
Misha Mar 04, 1961
Michael Hennahane Mar 04, 1967
Gary Miller Mar 08, 1949
Bill Peachee Mar 09, 1969
Ann Burlingham Mar 12, 1964
Gary Probe Mar 14, 1961
Steve Dyer Mar 14, 19??
George V. Reilly Mar 15, 1965
Mark Proffitt Mar 19, 1963
Sammie Foss Mar 20, 1964

Soc.Motss Rules of Engagement

Here are new proposals (nay, let us say commands) about the soc.motss Rules of Engagement:

When in doubt, flame.

You are a fragile ego in a world of egos. They are out to get you. Your best defense is to attack first.

Hate is a family value when it is your gay and lesbian family.

You may forget why you made them, but never forget your negative judgments.

Be proud of your ability to hold a grudge, it shows character.

If someone offers an olive branch, bite their hand. You hate olives and they should have remembered this.

Pick a side.

You are on the side of Righteousness and Truth. Therefore, everything is permitted.

You are not insensitive; the other person is annoying.

You are right and they are wrong. Since they are wrong, they must be stupid.

Love Affair With Food

Jojo: Jojo’s Legendary Baked Garlic (20 May 1992).

Jess Anderson: Coffee (20 May 1992).

Jess Anderson: Veggie Casserole: Yummy and Dyke-Tested (17 Dec 1992).

Jess Anderson: Killer Punch (11 Sep 1993).

Nelson Minar: Guacamole (29 Jan 1994).

Nick Fitch: Gougère of Creamed Mushrooms (21 Nov 1994).

Mike Reaser: Suthun Cornbread (21 Apr 1995).

Arne Adolfsen: Potatoes Arne (21 Jun 1995).

Arne Adolfsen: Cookbooks (3 Aug 1995).

Arnold Zwicky: Waffles, Waffles, Gnocchi and Waffles (13 Jun 1997).

Dean Allemang: Monique’s Gnocchi (6 Jul 1997).

Arnold Zwicky: Balti (23 Feb 1998).

Lee Rudolph: Sui-mi Ji (1 Oct 1998).

Tané Tachyon: Menu du jour (30 Oct 1998).

Michael Thomas: Duck Confit (24 Nov 1998).

Chris Hansen: Hansen Fried Rice (9 Jul 1999).

Leith Chu: Cold Sesame Noodles (13 Oct 1999).

Arnold Zwicky: Momentous Changes (6 Mar 2000).

Eric Bohlman: Re: Vietnamese Food (24 Jul 2000).

Ken Rudolph: HAF Memorial Feast (13 Aug 2000).

Scott Safier: Re: Cooking Whole Fish (16 Aug 2000).

Michael Thomas: Lobster Soufflé (1 Sep 2000).

Arnold Zwicky: Cold Curried Lima Beans (1 Sep 2000).

Sim Aberson: Manchego Cheese Grits (10 Sep 2000).

John Fisher: Re: Teatime (23 Oct 2000).

Arnold Zwicky: Re: It Wasn’t My Idea (31 May 2001).

Paul Wallich: Re: Products We Don’t Need (6 Jun 2001).

Sim Aberson: Re: Products We Don’t Need (7 Jun 2001).

Mack Therber: Mineralesque Shrimp (3 Aug 2001).

Ayana Craven: Pecan Pie (24 Aug 2001).

Tim Wilson: Cornsticks (29 Aug 2001).

Brian Vogel: Re: Coloured Cakes (27 Oct 2001).

Brian Vogel: Painted Lily Apple Crisp (27 Oct 2001).

David Gartner: Red Velvet Cake (31 Oct 2001).

Michael Thomas: Re: Wine Help (11 Aug 2002).

Ellen Evans: Cachaça (12 Nov 2002).

Tim Wilson: Got My Mojo Working (13 Jan 2003).

Arnold Zwicky: Re: Learning to Cook (10 Feb 2003).

Alex Elliott: Re: Fruit Preferences (18 Jun 2003).

Michael Sarris: Peppers of the World (15 Jul 2003).

David Horne: Peruvian Ceviche (23 Aug 2003).

Cheryl Trooskin: Sev’s Favorite Chocolate Ganache (14 Jan 2004).

Michael Thomas: Today’s Leftover Hint (28 Nov 2004).

Nick Fitch: Savoury Gruyere Choux Ring (22 Dec 2004).

Lakhota

Lakhota
Arnold Zwicky, 13 May 1998

having so recently declared that all the standard inventories of languages of the world list only LAKOTA/DAKOTA and not LAKOTAH or LAKHOTA, i have to partially eat my words. the april 1998 issue of the International Journal of American Linguistics (the amerindianist journal) arrived today, and it has an article by bruce ingham entitled “Demonstrative Stems in Lakhota”. so i probably should have checked with a siouanist.

matters are a bit complicated, however. ingham’s footnote 5 is about the language/dialect situation:

Lakhota is one of the five main dialects of the language more usually known in earlier days as Dakota, namely, the language of the Sioux, Assiniboine, and Stoney. The dialects were (i) that of the Teton or western Sioux (Lakhota), (ii) that of the Santee-Sisseton or Eastern Sioux and Yankton- Yanktonai or Southern Central Sioux (Dakhota), (iii) that of the Assiniboine (Nakhota), and (iv) that of the Stoney (Nakhoda)…The people call themselves variously Lakhota, Dakhota, Nakhota, or Nakhoda depending on their dialect, while the names Sioux and Assiniboine are early French renderings of names given to them by their Algonquian neighbors…

then i looked at ingham’s bibliography, only to find 11 entries (from 1893 through 1994) with the spellings Lakota/Dakota and only three (all by david rood and allan taylor) with the spelling Lakhota. you might suspect that ingham is/was a student, in some sense, of rood and/or taylor. but whatever the personal or intellectual histories of the people involved, it’s clear that the spellings Lakhota/Dakhota are respectable enough to be published in journals — in the major amerindian journal, in fact.